Talk:Ranger
Favored enemies & epic levels not sure, but I don't think the Ranger's Favored enemy progression extends into 20+ levels seperate from the normal Epic bonus feats.--Defunc7 00:19, 11 Sep 2005 (PDT) *I never had a Ranger with 30 levels, but i have had builds with over 25 Ranger levels. I do remember there was a bonus feat at level 25. -- Pstarky 08:30, 6 Oct 2005 (PDT) :*yea, I checked a bit back, but only replied that it was true in the Epic Bonus feat page. not here. --Defunc7 09:35, 6 Oct 2005 (PDT) I would just remove the reference to favored enemies from the Special Abilities&Feats list and replace it with bonus feat (after all that's exactly what the favored enemy is: a selectable bonus feat). Also I would remove the epic part (level 25,30,35,40) and change the epic bonus feat progression to 23,25,26,29,30,32,35,35,38,40. What do you think?--Kamiryn 05:47, 11 January 2006 (PST) *I wouldn't just call it "epic bonus feats" because it effectively has 2 (feat/5 & feat/3) seperate progressions, where all the other classes only have 1. Currently it's pretty ambiguous since it says "Bonus Feats: Favored Enemy, Greater Spell Focus" at the start, with "FE (or bonus feat)" on the pre-epic, I don't think u can take GSF pre-epic, and the note section confuses it with epic pre-epic bonus stuff. You can only take FE pre-epic pre-epic character. --Defunc7 06:44, 11 January 2006 (PST) :*You can take Greater Spell Focus pre-epic.--Kamiryn 06:54, 11 January 2006 (PST) The problem I have is that at there are a few classes with pre-epic bonus feats (CoT, fighter, rogue, ranger, harper scout, wizard) but there's no consistency at all: fighters have a link to the fighter bonus feat page, for CoTs it says the fighter list is used (the notes tell a few difference and there's a strange note about the epic(!) Great Smiting not being a fighter bonus feat), rogues have their bonus feat list within the special abilities&feats, for wizards it says something about metamagic and spell feats, the harper scout class lists the feats at every level, ranger did say nothing about bonus feats (well, the only other beside FE is the Greater Spell Focus feat so it's forgivable). But why not give every class a (pre-epic) bonus feat list and in the Special Abilities&Feats section write down at which level a bonus feat is gained.--Kamiryn 07:33, 11 January 2006 (PST) *The only reason this hasn't been done is simply that no one has done it yet. *Hint* *Hint!* ^_~ --Countess Terra 08:13, 11 January 2006 (PST) :*Well, after all these edits in the last hours I was afraid of becoming a member of the spam list page. So hesitated to do any larger changes and modifications without at least a short discussion.--Kamiryn 08:23, 11 January 2006 (PST) ::*Never hurts to ask. I do agree it should be done. --Countess Terra 08:33, 11 January 2006 (PST) Spell progression the spells progression dosent seem accurate, im level 9 and have 2/1/0/0 -- 28 March 2007 *You probably ain't counting the bonus spells from WIS 12+ Kail Pendragon 05:02, 2 April 2007 (PDT) Archery I can see how Cat's Grace can help archery a bit, but can anyone explain to me how skill points and favored enemies specifically aid archery? --The Krit 21:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC) *Archers seem to me to be low on damage per shot and often rely upon dexterity for AC, so a little extra damage and a bonus to spot and listen could be quite useful. Also summoned creatures can be some use in distracting opponents. Although I agree that it does seem ridiculous call them perfect... RAMss 06:56, 8 September 2008 (UTC) "Despite popular perception and BioWare's prestige class tip, the ranger has but one class feature that enhances archery, namely the ability to self-buff with cat's grace and thereby increasing the ranger's ranged attack bonus." I don't agree. The "favored enemy" works with ranged weapons as bows too. With a pure ranger, you'll get the extra ranged damage no other class would get as: *1-4: 1 (on one racial group) *5-9: 2 (on two racial groups) *10-14: 3 (on three racial groups) *15-19: 4 (on four racial groups) *20: 5 (on five racial groups) *(Take bane of enemies at 21, the damage is counted as 2-12) *21-24: 7-17 (on five racial groups) *23: (one extra racial group due to bonus feat) *25: (one extra racial group as favored enemy) *26: (one extra racial group due to bonus feat) *25-29: 8-19 (on eight racial groups) *29: (one extra racial group due to bonus feat) *30: (one extra racial group as favored enemy) *30-34: 9-20 (on ten/eleven racial groups) *32: (one extra racial group due to bonus feat) *35 (one extra racial group due to bonus feat, one extra racial group as favored enemy) *35-39: 10-21 (on thirteen/fourteen racial groups due to bonus feat) *38: (one extra racial group due to bonus feat) *40: (one extra racial group as favored enemy) *40: 11-22 (on fifteen racial groups) There are 18 racial groups in all. I admit though that it's a bit stupid to take only extra enemies as epic feats, but take at least those that are immune to sneak attacks and/or crits since the ranger extra damage works on those too. If you multiclass the ranger you'll get other kinds of ranged damage you add to your bow: Arcane archers make the bow magic, most useful in low magical worlds. With a cleric or paladin, you'll get the spell "divine favour" and the feat "divine might", both works with ranged weapons. With a bard, the bardsong improves ranged weapons too. With a rogue, you'll get the sneak attacks that also works with ranged weapons. To max out ranged damage, use a heavy crossbow instead of a bow and the "rapid reload" feat. 10:10, March 13, 2010 (UTC) * Your argument falls flat as soon as you get to the word "too". Favored enemy bonuses do work with ranged weapons, but they are not exclusive to ranged weapons. A ranger is no better suited to archery than melee combat. (And there are 24 favored enemy races available, not 18.) I suppose the wording could be a bit better, although personally I wouldn't even bothering mentioning cat's grace. --The Krit 02:08, March 14, 2010 (UTC) Greater Spell Focus Why doesn't greater spell focus show on the bonus epic feats? You can select it both on the ranger epic bonus levels and on the ranger favored enemy levels (both regular and epic). WhiZard 03:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC) :Because greater spell focus is not an epic feat. ;) Look at the list of "Bonus feats" a lot closer to the top of the article. --The Krit 19:47, 24 October 2008 (UTC) ::I think I might remember what I was trying to get at half a year ago with that comment. The thing is favored enemy is listed both in bonus and in epic bonus, as well as being a title for the bonus feats on class level 1 and levels that are a multiple of 5. While it seems quite obvious from the amount of listings of favored enemy that it can be taken on both epic level progressions, the lack of instruction on the specifically three level progression for greater spell focus seems quite confusing. My suggestion would be to drop "nth favored enemy" in the leveling guide completely and replace it with "bonus feat" (The leveling guide already has a column for the favored enemy bonus, so describing the corresponding bonus feat as "nth favored enemy" is already redundant). Then put the link to the favored enemy page under the favored enemy that is listed in "bonus feats: favored enemy, greater spell focus" at the top. Then get rid of favored enemy listed in the epic bonus feats and merge the two epic feat progressions into one description. This would keep the formatting the same as with all the other classes and make it obvious that greater spell focus does not just apply to the favored enemy line that is currently set up. I don't want to carry out such a heavy edit if there isn't some consensus, though. WhiZard 01:33, 11 May 2009 (UTC) ::: For consistency, "favored enemy" did need to be removed from the epic feat list. As for the rest, it sounds good, so it might be worth seeing in action. Be sure to check out the discussion at the top of this talk page, too. --The Krit 18:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC) ::::Changed "nth favored enemy" in leveling guide to "bonus feat," combined both epic level bonus feat progressions, and simplified description for "epic favored enemy." WhiZard 19:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)